How does someone like Taylor Swift who is increasingly disliked by the MAGA right fit into this thesis? Couldn't you say that Taylor Swift is a hero in the Clark Kent sense?
Agree, I think much of this stems from postmodern literature, art and culture and then the rise of the actual anti hero in popular culture. Tony Soprano, Walter White, Frank Underwood, Jax Teller etc.
And to your point, an ideologically unaligned country by definition can’t have national heroes. So they memorialize victims and anti-hero’s, depending on what side of the aisle you’re on.
Doesn’t the west then need a group of ”avangers” assembled by Nick Fury? Or a suicide squad assembled by Amanda Waller?
To fight unnatural force of evil? Who essentially at best is just fighting against the destructive nature of humanity that lives in each of these hero charachters? Wheras in the east this type of leadership already exists and has erratigated the destructive nature of free will from society?
Had a hard time following the reasoning on this one.
I'm not sure, though, what is the set of people for whom Trump was at one time a hero and is now an anti-hero (easy to see examples for the other two). Expand, please? I mean, I know a few determined Republicans who used to have a fairly high opinion of him ca 2017-2018 and now do not, but I don't *think* they ever saw him as a "hero". Not sure I could get an honest answer from them today regarding their attitude 5-7 years ago.
"(And, worth noting, Kanye is also the richest self-made black American in history.)"
Presumably this is based on a carefully crafted definition of "self-made" that includes Ye and no other (e.g. a definition that does not include Oprah Winfrey, or for that matter Robert Smith or David Steward, both far richer than Oprah, or Jay-Z who is somewhere about the same at notional $2.5B)?
Or possibly/additionally a carefully crafted definition of "American", since the nine actual black American billionaires (according to a 2023 list that is: valuations have likely changed since) are not, AFAICT, Trump adjacent or at least mainstream/establishment hostile, which is required to be a Real American, I hear.
Then again, perhaps Ye and/or Our Host are using Trumpian valuation methods. Without seeing Ye's loan paperwork it's hard to say.
Ah, got it, I was supposed to take that statement of Our Host seriously but not remotely literally.
Nah, I get it, last refuge of something or other. I take it that's a quote popularized by, if probably not invented by, Dr Phil? It sounds like his brand (I was never a fan of him, Oprah, Kanye/Ye, or Trump - I did and still do have some regard for Elon FWIW).
What was *your* point of exaggerating Ye's wealth so much? Trolling? If so, congrats on your success. I trust you find that *is* working out the way you had intended? I'll assume so,.
Ah, thanks! I read the book, long ago (before the movie came out I _think_), but haven't seen the movie - (yeah, I see now that the line is in the book too - I'd forgotten the entire scene). Good choice for illustrating your point.
OK, yeah, "one of the wealthiest N self made black Americans, where N was possibly no more than five as recently as 2021 but is now in Feb 2024 is probably more like forty or fifty" doesn't quite roll off the tongue, does it?
But FWIW you're right for your thesis statement - *I* at least can't think of a wealthier/higher profile black American who made the hero to anti hero transition (among Right Thinking People, anyway) as thoroughly as Ye did, and your choice of Musk to exemplify the transition was nothing less than inspired. He's even African American :)
Per my original comment, before the snarky/not so clever part, I still don't see the hero to anti-hero transition for Trump as in the case of the other two, but I'm probably not looking in the right places. Thanks again - nice and thought provoking, which I will assume was your primary intent.
Yeah, and Robert Smith ($8B 2023 net worth according to Forbes) is nearly as self made as Ye and probably 20x richer (I couldn't find a 2023 estimate for Ye's net worth). But Smith did it the boring way (including his professional class parents staying married, his going to college, and a career path that is, dare we say it, White). David Steward ($5B) had working class parents and he grew up in segregated Missouri, but again his parents stayed married and he went to college (and made his money in technology, no less!).
I'm sure you are familiar with Oprah's biography/hagiography.
Anti-heroes or “rebels” also denote a (sometimes) ironic American patriotism. It’s both how we were founded and what tore us apart.
Great piece, thanks!
How does someone like Taylor Swift who is increasingly disliked by the MAGA right fit into this thesis? Couldn't you say that Taylor Swift is a hero in the Clark Kent sense?
Agree, I think much of this stems from postmodern literature, art and culture and then the rise of the actual anti hero in popular culture. Tony Soprano, Walter White, Frank Underwood, Jax Teller etc.
And to your point, an ideologically unaligned country by definition can’t have national heroes. So they memorialize victims and anti-hero’s, depending on what side of the aisle you’re on.
Good article
An interesting piece and I look forward to checking the book out. I wrote something connected to this which you may find interesting - https://medium.com/swlh/the-madness-of-genius-7f8f4fc3fc1c
Also, one small point but is Kanye really the richest self-made black person in America? What about Robert F. Smith? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_F._Smith_(investor)
Doesn’t the west then need a group of ”avangers” assembled by Nick Fury? Or a suicide squad assembled by Amanda Waller?
To fight unnatural force of evil? Who essentially at best is just fighting against the destructive nature of humanity that lives in each of these hero charachters? Wheras in the east this type of leadership already exists and has erratigated the destructive nature of free will from society?
Had a hard time following the reasoning on this one.
Generally an excellent thesis statement - thanks!
I'm not sure, though, what is the set of people for whom Trump was at one time a hero and is now an anti-hero (easy to see examples for the other two). Expand, please? I mean, I know a few determined Republicans who used to have a fairly high opinion of him ca 2017-2018 and now do not, but I don't *think* they ever saw him as a "hero". Not sure I could get an honest answer from them today regarding their attitude 5-7 years ago.
"(And, worth noting, Kanye is also the richest self-made black American in history.)"
Presumably this is based on a carefully crafted definition of "self-made" that includes Ye and no other (e.g. a definition that does not include Oprah Winfrey, or for that matter Robert Smith or David Steward, both far richer than Oprah, or Jay-Z who is somewhere about the same at notional $2.5B)?
Or possibly/additionally a carefully crafted definition of "American", since the nine actual black American billionaires (according to a 2023 list that is: valuations have likely changed since) are not, AFAICT, Trump adjacent or at least mainstream/establishment hostile, which is required to be a Real American, I hear.
Then again, perhaps Ye and/or Our Host are using Trumpian valuation methods. Without seeing Ye's loan paperwork it's hard to say.
Ah, got it, I was supposed to take that statement of Our Host seriously but not remotely literally.
Brilliant last few paragraphs.
“How’s that working out for you? Being clever?”
Nah, I get it, last refuge of something or other. I take it that's a quote popularized by, if probably not invented by, Dr Phil? It sounds like his brand (I was never a fan of him, Oprah, Kanye/Ye, or Trump - I did and still do have some regard for Elon FWIW).
What was *your* point of exaggerating Ye's wealth so much? Trolling? If so, congrats on your success. I trust you find that *is* working out the way you had intended? I'll assume so,.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8_5zWIwDjGM
I meant to say "one of"
Ah, thanks! I read the book, long ago (before the movie came out I _think_), but haven't seen the movie - (yeah, I see now that the line is in the book too - I'd forgotten the entire scene). Good choice for illustrating your point.
OK, yeah, "one of the wealthiest N self made black Americans, where N was possibly no more than five as recently as 2021 but is now in Feb 2024 is probably more like forty or fifty" doesn't quite roll off the tongue, does it?
But FWIW you're right for your thesis statement - *I* at least can't think of a wealthier/higher profile black American who made the hero to anti hero transition (among Right Thinking People, anyway) as thoroughly as Ye did, and your choice of Musk to exemplify the transition was nothing less than inspired. He's even African American :)
Per my original comment, before the snarky/not so clever part, I still don't see the hero to anti-hero transition for Trump as in the case of the other two, but I'm probably not looking in the right places. Thanks again - nice and thought provoking, which I will assume was your primary intent.
Is no one universally loved in the US? How about Dwayne (the Rock) Johnson?
Zzzzz
Lol I suspect this one isnt going to land well with a lot of the readership
Isn’t Oprah also self made and like, 5x richer than Kanye?
Yeah, and Robert Smith ($8B 2023 net worth according to Forbes) is nearly as self made as Ye and probably 20x richer (I couldn't find a 2023 estimate for Ye's net worth). But Smith did it the boring way (including his professional class parents staying married, his going to college, and a career path that is, dare we say it, White). David Steward ($5B) had working class parents and he grew up in segregated Missouri, but again his parents stayed married and he went to college (and made his money in technology, no less!).
I'm sure you are familiar with Oprah's biography/hagiography.